Sophie Howard:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to episode three of the Aspiring Entrepreneurs Podcast. So far we've talked about the different entrepreneur profiles, the connectors, the creators, the automators, the operators. And we've also had a look at different business models and the pros and cons of some of those.
Now a lot of people looking to start a career as an entrepreneur, looking for the types of business models that suit working from home. One that always comes up is being a coach and there's all sorts of different coaches out there. Business coaches, fitness coaches, accountability coaches, success coaches is a huge, huge range. But I want to bring to you today, a wonderful guest, Christine Barry. So Christine's worked with me for the last four years running my own coaching business. So she was actually a former client of mine as a student who I used to train. And I could see that she had natural talents with people, a great way of explaining things. Some of the really key qualities that I could see would make her a great coach. Plus she let on, she'd been investing a lot in herself to get her own coaching qualifications and experience and skills.
So she's the best I know in this business. And I think she'll be a great guest. She's very open and she communicates so brilliantly. I think you're going to learn a lot about what it takes to be a successful coach. And also to work out for you if it's a good fit for your strengths and personality. So let me kick off by introducing Christine. Hello, Christine.
Christine Barry:
Hello. Thank you for having me on your show.
Sophie Howard:
Well, it's very strange interviewing you because we're close friends, we've worked together, we've tripped around the world together. Taking-
Christine Barry:
True, yes.
Sophie Howard:
Students to trade shows all around India and Vietnam. So, we've seen lot of us. And we've had a lot of students that we've coached together. And those students have come to us for business training. So generally in the world of product research, Amazon related type things. But you've also had a slightly different angle when you've coached those same students, you've taught them a lot about mindset and focusing and some of that more sort of personal development and personal growth set of things. But let's just jump back to when you started as a coach. So what made you get started as a coach? Why did you think this was going to be a good thing for you? Because clearly it's worked out, but what got you started in the first place?
Christine Barry:
The first thing I did was I got coached by somebody. And it changed so many aspects of my actual personal life that I thought, "Oh, wow, I really want this as a gift that I can give to others." Basically. So I pursued going to the Coaching Institute and studying under Sharon Pearson. And that was just a game changer. So I learned all of the skills that it takes to dig into people's mindset, understand why they're successful or not. And then, NLP and positive psychology, which were fascinating. So human behavior to me is super intriguing. So that's where I got started.
Sophie Howard:
And do you believe all of the skills to be a good coach are teachable? Or do you think some of it's innate and comes down to your personality? Because you're a real natural with people. Would it be the same if it was just taught and scripted? Or what kind of other people were doing the training at Coaching Institute with you?
Christine Barry:
I think there is an element of somewhat a natural ability to be able to empathize with other humans, to be able to communicate really well. But also to be able to ask really good questions. So be able to help people to come to their own understanding of what they needed to know. And I think that a lot of that they try to teach in the course, but it really does come more intuitively and naturally to other people, I think. It follows this particular script that you have to do. So, yes, you're right. I think it's something you can learn. But I think that a lot of coaches start to go off ... not so much off script. But definitely the more that you develop your knowledge of human behavior and why people do what they do, it starts to become way more intuitive.
Sophie Howard:
But you definitely are very natural the way you coach, I've watched you coach lots, lots of people. And it is all about opening a conversation and then I watch you very skillfully get them to find their own conclusion. It's not the same as teaching where you put the answer in their mouth.
Christine Barry:
Correct.
Sophie Howard:
You're very good drawing out what their problem or challenge is. And then they have to solve it themselves, which is more empowering than just giving them an answer because it's always going be another challenge they have to solve, too.
Christine Barry:
Exactly. Yes.
Sophie Howard:
This mindset coaching is quite a thing, it's all the rage at the moment. Everybody has had a pretty tumultuous year or two with COVID, we've had less certainty than ever before. So you've been a business coach, but also done a lot around mindset. What kind of help do you think people need with mindset coaching? And why do they turn up needing this help? So what goes on before they turn up to you needing coaching around mindset?
Christine Barry:
I think one of the big things that I notice with people is, when they're doing something new and unfamiliar, all of their old fears come up. So all of their insecurities around making money or being successful all start rearing their ugly head. But what I think people forget is that they've overcome so many challenges in the past, but they can't see that line between the two things that they've overcome. So being able to help someone to sort of cast their mind back to something they were successful at and then realize that they actually do have the skills that they need to be successful at something else. They're just feeling fear can be really useful in that aspect. Yeah.
Sophie Howard:
Yeah. And I've got another question. So you said you got into coaching because you had a coach who made such a difference that you could see, this would be a great line of work to go into. But has being a coach helped you personally, too? It's like if you become a fitness or personal trainer, it's probably going to help you keep in shape. But from your type of coaching, has it helped you in your own business, spend lots of your time explaining others how to be successful and be positive and have a clear mindset?
Christine Barry:
Yes, it has actually. Because it brings you to a feeling of confidence within your own skills. And you've got all of the language and the skills to coach yourself, to stay in the place that you need to stay to be successful. So, you can overcome challenges way quicker when you can sort it out in your own head and talk yourself through what you needed to know anyway. So, I do still constantly learn and grow and have a coach. So it's not like I've ditched my coach to be my own coach. But I've certainly I have more skills and then I have coaches that take me to next levels.
Sophie Howard:
Very good. Now, one of the things we do in this podcast is dive into business models because all of us as entrepreneurs want to have successful businesses that don't just keep us busy working from home. Ideally we want to be less busy and earning more and having a good lifestyle. So can you explain how the business model of coaching works? From how you would find your clients through to the costs and the delivery mechanism of the coaching? And then how it's charged, what generates the profit? And just talk us through that. So there's obviously different types of coaching models, but I'll just let you lead into that. And I'll maybe add in some questions.
Christine Barry:
I think what happens at the beginning, because most people when they come straight out of coaching school, you're a bit of a generalist and you haven't really decided where you're going to niche down on your skills. And I think it's vitally important to work out where you're going to coach and who. And have a really skinny niche of people that you're going to deal with. Because then obviously you get to the next stage of, "Yes, I've decided who it is I'm going to work with. How am I going to find them?" Is also very, very challenging at times. But if your niche is too broad, very hard for you to find clients. But when you've really-
Sophie Howard:
I think [crosstalk 00:08:17] small life coaches.
Christine Barry:
Yes. Way too many life coaches that are generalists. It's true. But when you really niche down and decide, it's these people that do this thing and they need my help for this reason. Then everything that you do becomes focused around that. So all of your marketing becomes easier, your message is easier to put out into the world and you're not buck shotting around the place trying to find people who will fit. It's more that they resonate with the message that you are putting out.
So, there's lots of ways obviously to find clients and you can spend tons on ads, on different platforms, as we know. But often word of mouth can be a big, big part of being a coach. So, people will say, "Oh, I've got this coach. She was great for this." And those sorts of things get the word out a lot easier, I think. That written and video testimonials can be really, really useful, as well. So yeah, that's where I would start.
Sophie Howard:
And then what sort of hourly rate range do you see different coaches charging? And what helps the best coaches charge the most? Is it around the topic or the level of skill or what changes the needle on the dial for hourly rate?
Christine Barry:
That's a good question because when I first came out of the Coaching Institute, I think one of the first hourly rates they suggested we start on was 150 an hour. There was a large percentage of people that were just, "Oh, really? That's so much." Do you know what I mean? So I think it's not about how much you charge, it's how much you feel that your value is to the client. And that comes from some time actually dealing with clients. And obviously you might start upping your rate as you go. But feeling that you've got that intrinsic value within what you can actually achieve with a client will help you to back yourself and not falter when you're talking about what your rates are.
And I've seen people at every end of the scale, honestly. You can charge whatever you want, to be fair. I've never in my life had anyone ask me what my qualifications are, which is also very interesting. I do have obviously qualifications, but no one's ever asked me to see them. So I think the results speak for themselves when it comes to the price.
Sophie Howard:
Yeah. And it is an unregulated industry, which is amazing really, when you think how personal a relationship you can have with some clients and the kind of advice and the discussions you're having.
Christine Barry:
Absolutely.
Sophie Howard:
Usually you'd have a confidentiality agreement and a contract of some sort. But yeah, it makes it a low barrier to entry business, I guess, as well. Because even without any training, you can go out and do this. The training obviously helps. A lot of the training tends to be around the marketing and how to set up a business, which is good because a lot of potential coaches wouldn't have those skills or that knowledge.
So what about the different types of coaching? So you can do one on one coaching, obviously Zoom as being very valuable in the last year or two, the app, the one on one, because you don't need to do it in person. But could you just talk a little bit about one on one and group and masterminds and all the different levels and tiers of how to be a successful coach?
Christine Barry:
Absolutely. So I think the first level would be one to one. That's where I started. And I think it's much like a training ground to begin with. Because you're dealing one to one with the person, you're getting to see a result towards the end, the Penny's dropping for them, but also for you. And then, at some point that becomes not very profitable and it's better to move to a group coaching aspect. But that also depends on what niche you're in too. And if you're doing business coaching or coaching around a certain topic, then a group works really well.
Sometimes it's a combination of both. I think that really helps people too. An aspect of, there's a group that's here to support you, we're all going through the same things. And often when you're coaching one person in the group, everyone feels the same anyway. It's never ... what's the word? Your problems are the same as pretty much everyone on the planet, to be honest. You just think that you've got unique problems. But it's one to one, that's where I started and gained that confidence in what I was doing. And then moved it into doing groups.
Sophie Howard:
And financially, it all sounds great to do one on one because the hourly rate sounds really high. Especially that moment where we're making the offer in the client agrees, it sounds like a great hourly rate. But what about the financial impact of one on one versus getting groups together? Which do you recommend people aim for?
Christine Barry:
I certainly think that a combination of both or all group, depending on what you're coaching on. You can maximize your time spent and the money that is being charged for the coaching if you're doing groups. So for example, one of my groups has six people in it and it's two and a half thousand ahead for an hourly session for eight weeks. So if I was to do one to one for all of those people for six people, eight hours a week, that just wouldn't be worth the time investment. You know what I mean? But when they get the same result from doing it in a group, so I think it's better to move as quickly as possible to group coaching if you can.
Sophie Howard:
And thinking about the client, do you think they get a better result one on one or better result through being part of a group? Do you think there's an effective having like minded-
Christine Barry:
Again, I think it depends on what coaching you're doing. But I think the group actually works better. I know it sounds much more daunting when you've never done it either way, because now you're dealing with six people, all in a group. It does sound daunting. But like I said, often people have the same problem. So what drops for someone's going to drop for pretty much everyone in the group.
Sophie Howard:
And what about these masterminds that we see? I mean, there's some incredibly high priced mastermind coaching offers out there. You've run some programs for me that are very high end, a lot of done for you work, a lot of big bundles of services in a mastermind coaching package. And you've been my head coach for a lot of my clients over the years, going through my mastermind program. So I've trusted you to deliver to them and you did, and they all love you. Some of them say, "We like you, but we love Christine." Feel quite good, so thanks for that. So what is it with this mastermind that they get when they kind of go to that very top tier of the coaching game?
Christine Barry:
I think that the experience level of the person running the group is what makes the difference. So because I've walked the trenches alongside you with what we've done together, with what I've done in my own business. I'm already streets ahead of the people that come into the mastermind. So that's where I've got that confidence as well in what I know what I'm talking about. But also in that it helps other people. I've not forgotten where I came from and can relate to them in that regard.
So yes, I've got much more years of experience running that kind of business. So yeah, I think that's where it comes. Like I think if you went straight into mastermind coaching straight away, you just wouldn't have that level of knowledge that people need when they come in at that level. They're paying for your detailed experience.
Sophie Howard:
Yeah. And as you kind of transition through the levels, at one end it's kind of subject matter technical help. And then it becomes ... you've got to A, do a bit of crowd control with the dynamic of the group. But you've also got to get inside their heads. It's much more kind of an intimate relationship with your clients at that level. They're really paying for access to you as the guru or the experts. So they've got really high trust in you and they expect a lot back and they want the result, they're paying a premium for that result and the care and the attention. So, it's a big undertaking to start a mastermind.
But I think the group models are really nice hybrid with the best of both worlds. Plus it frees up your time/ and just talking hourly rates, we've seen people in the hundreds and hundreds of dollars US per hour for one on one. But a group coaching thing could be a block of say 10 sessions for $5,000 up to $10,000. But then they get Facebook community or they get some other services. And then the mastermind tends to be some one on one and it might run for a longer period of time and it might have more things done for them. And you're going right to the top of the most advanced strategies and really pushing on it, full speed. And those people have very high expectations.
Christine Barry:
You're also making them accountable. There's a lot of accountability in a mastermind, too. Like people feel that they're supported the whole way, but also know that you're not going to be that person that says, "I didn't do anything this week." It's like, it's full steam ahead at a high rate and we are getting things done and you can't fall behind. So, that's also what you're paying for, is that somebody's going to be there at all times to assist you to move as quickly as possible.
Sophie Howard:
So having done this for quite a few years now and spent thousands and thousands of dollars on your own education to become a coach, plus all the coaching you've paid to receive your own business and your own skills. Who do you think coaching suits? Which kind of people are going to make the best coaches that you've seen from your experience? What do you think makes it a no brainer that somebody should be a coach?
Christine Barry:
I think it's the type of person that's prepared to be a public figure in some respect. I mean, anyone that shys away from the limelight would not make a good coach. I mean, maybe to a one on one level, but if you wanted to go up to group or mastermind, you've got to be very okay with knowing what you're talking about and being confident in delivering. But also being able to market yourself. And I think as you would know, seeing your own face on YouTube can be quite daunting at the very start. And I'm sure after a while you get used to it. I think that people that can't handle the limelight or the spotlight focus would struggle to get this off the ground. Because it does need a lot of self-promotion.
Sophie Howard:
So you can do that through a book that builds your authority. And the whole marketing thing can be automated a lot. But there's a lot of skill to put that together, plus some serious budget. Plus, the sales calls, you can't really outsource those. But one of the nice things about the coaching business is once you've got set up, there might be some marketing expenses with paid ads. But once you've got some word of mouth and you've developed your intellectual property, your workbooks, your teaching materials, there aren't too many other expenses. So would you say it's quite a profitable model? Or do you think it's capped with the hourly rate sort of idea behind the one-on-one side of it? Or how do you, find it as a business model?
Christine Barry:
I think the only thing that caps your income is potentially the marketing budget. If you don't have a high enough turnover to get started. So yes, marketing at the very start costs the most. But like you said, once you've done it and you've created all the module content, books, whatever you need, you don't have to keep redoing that unless, of course, things change slightly.
So yes, the only thing that other part of that would be trading your time for money. You've only got certain hours of the day. So that's why you want to maximize that by having evergreen content, a marketing funnel that you don't have to administer too much, anything that can be automated at all. And potentially the bigger that you get, the more that you can spend on outsourcing different parts of it to keep it growing.
Sophie Howard:
So, it's a skill that when you are good at what you do, there's plenty of demand out there. But you've also got to get a message out in a very crowded world. Do you find the actual coaching calls exhausting or repetitive or energizing? How do you feel as you do those calls? If you've got a full calendar, how do you get through your weeks doing a lot of coaching? I find it really tiring.
Christine Barry:
I think it depends. I'm really good at managing my energy before I go into any kind of coaching call. I do know though that when we were really, really busy during the lockdown last year, I would almost fall asleep at the dinner table. So you've got to be very good at managing how your calendar works, how much time is going to be taken. Because some people are just ... they'll take more of your energy than others. So some people are very easy to coach, some people are very difficult to coach. Depending on how that's structured and who's in for the day, sometimes your energy goes up and down.
Sophie Howard:
So do you think it would suit introverts or more extroverts?
Christine Barry:
I don't know. You and I are introverts and I can handle it. So, I'm not sure that it takes the introverted or extroverted type. I think it's more about whether you can manage how you get your energy back when you're done, gotten through the day.
Sophie Howard:
And I guess where we live in Australia and New Zealand, we've also got time zone challenges, which caps how many hours in a day, both us and our clients want to be awake. So there is a geographical thing. But it does really suit online, it's very light touch. You can be anywhere in the world, very low overheads, very low barrier to entry. So there's a lot to love about this model.
Plus it's a very good feeling, helping people, I've really enjoyed being a coach and still really enjoy all the coaching calls. I did a call this morning with an Amazon group about building virtual teams. And it was like I'd never talked about it before, I was so excited about it. So some topics, if you're really passionate about the subject and you've got a lot of energy for it, that can really keep you going. But if I have to explain Amazon barcodes to one more person, I think I will just fall off my chair.
Christine Barry:
I totally agree with that. And I think what makes it really great when you do have topics that you deliver that are very much the same. It's the group energy and the people within the group that make it different. So whilst the content might be quite similar, it's the people and the questions they ask that are great. I know I've got a group at the moment that are coming through that they just ask the best quality questions. And it's like, you guys are going to do really well because you're asking questions that are actually going to move you forward and help you to establish a good business. So, it depends on the group, I think as well.
Sophie Howard:
I do have a theory that the groups engage better than individuals. Individuals on the one on one, in my experience, I found that they kind of wanted to suck ideas at my brain and kind of lean on me. Whereas the group, nobody wants to be the person asking the silly question in front of everyone else. And they kind of want to turn up as general high achievers and showing that they're pushing on. So I think the group is a really healthy thing in lots of ways for us and for themselves and for each other. Plus they've got a group of new contacts who are like-minded people to stay in touch with as they grow their individual business on their own behind their computer screen. It can be quite a lonely business, even though you're-
Christine Barry:
Very true.
Sophie Howard:
Talking to people all day.
Christine Barry:
I agree. And I think you're right with that. Like, that's one of the biggest selling points I think for doing groups, as well. Is that there's a group of people that are not doing the same thing as you, but they're certainly on the same path. You all speak the same language now. You can stay together to keep each other accountable after the group structure has finished. So I always sell it to people in that way that, you're going to make friends. Because being a solo entrepreneur at a computer screen all day by yourself, that brings its own challenges. So it's great to have other people to reach out to, just to stay connected.
Sophie Howard:
Now if we do a quick kind of rapid fire, think through all the brilliant coaches that we've come across over the years and all the different subjects. Let's just brainstorm out loud some of the different subjects people could become a coach on. So I'll start with business. So that could be kind of around product research, setting up Shopify stores, setting up a Facebook ad agency. So coaching how to build those business models for online business. You go with couple.
Christine Barry:
I've got a friend who's a coach that helps you write books, but on a virtual retreat. So he assists ... and then he helps you to self publish. So, that's an interesting one.
Sophie Howard:
Brilliant. Love that. There's people who are coaches for real estate. So helping people understand the industry and then find the deals and then all get together to co-invest in the deals or share their skills or expertise on those deals. So coaching that leads directly into investment activity can be good.
Christine Barry:
Yep. I know coaches that do spiritual coaching.
Sophie Howard:
Of course you do.
Christine Barry:
So different aspects of spirituality. I have one of those.
Sophie Howard:
Welcome to Byron Bay.
Christine Barry:
Correct.
Sophie Howard:
And that's brilliant-
Christine Barry:
There's lots of them, though. Because lots of people are looking for that and that meaning and purpose in their actual life. It's not always related to their work or things like that. It's more meaning and purpose in their own life. So yeah, lots and lots of spiritual types of coaches.
Sophie Howard:
Yeah, definitely. I've seen a lot. And you can have more kind of classic personal trainer or a fitness coach. I know someone who lives near you, who does relationship coaching. I've got a friend here in New Zealand who's actually from Sydney, but she's a financial coach for women going through divorce. Like that's how narrow you want to be, these are really specific. Her messaging hits exactly the people who need her services and they sign up with her. And she does a very high end, high spec coaching program with them as a group. And she's got a brilliant product, she wins all sorts of business awards for her own business, coaching that subject.
Christine Barry:
So true. And I mean, there's so many different aspects. I mean, you could coach business coach people in a multitude of different angles. I've got a friend who only works with very specific types of businesses. She would never do a product based coach, but she would certainly do someone who's building up a yoga studio or a health coach or someone like that. The more tight the niche, the better the marketing is. And like you said, the easier it is to find your people. Definitely.
Sophie Howard:
You can have a business strategy coach, who's kind of generic. I have a coach who I pay every month who's in Australia, who I do two one-on-one calls a month and then I'm part of a group. And that's a great service. I've even had an online horse riding coach-
Christine Barry:
Oh wow.
Sophie Howard:
[crosstalk 00:27:15] lady who actually went through the Coaching Institute in Melbourne, as well. She's got a very, very cool model teaching people dressage online.
Christine Barry:
Oh cool. Well, that's an interesting one.
Sophie Howard:
She's doing pretty well with that. Very enterprising girl.
Christine Barry:
I know someone prior to what I saw going to not being able to travel, who was doing the Camino trail as a way of coaching. So taking you on the trail and coaching you as you were going. Because it's extremely challenging, but it's almost like that, we're going to climb the Himalayas and it's really challenging. That kind of personal endurance and mindset that's going to get you to the other end. So it can help you to break through all kinds of barriers in your own head when it's as challenging as that.
Sophie Howard:
Well, I have to say one of my favorite things about having been a coach for the last seven years now, I think, six or seven years. I just feel very privileged to sort of hear that inner workings and the inner thoughts of people who you would never normally get access to or contact with. And they just pour their hearts out. They share all their ideas and they give them feedback and as much sports as I can. But I feel very privileged to have that sort of inner life of other people, kind of coming through to me. And I find it ... it's never boring. It's sometimes quite hard work, but I've never been exhausted by coaching. Sometimes the schedules full on, sometimes the topics are demanding. Sometimes the group dynamic gets a bit rugged and you have to really work on that. But I've always just found that's sort of personal connection is the most rewarding thing. And how about you? Which bit do you enjoy most with it all?
Christine Barry:
I have to say I find that part really rewarding, too. And getting to know people. Like really, you can develop a really lovely relationship with people and realize that we're all really good people at heart, which is just refreshing. Because when we look out into the world and we see all this struggle and chaos, you realize that there's just all these lovely humans out there that really need your assistance to do something. And it feels really uplifting to be able to help them with things. I agree.
Sophie Howard:
Great seeing them get the results. They've turned up eyes wide open on stalks and then they leave fully competent, making money, really confident with what they're doing. So you can't sort of ever guarantee a result, but you can guarantee that you teach what you do, that you know that works and you can share everything with all your experience. And you're not competing, it's just a kind of a one way flow. And then at some point, you sort of start getting something back from your clients too, which is really nice.
So whether you're going to be a guitar teacher online or mindset coach or help people declutter online or whatever your coaching ideas are. There's all sorts of opportunities out there, it's a very easy industry to enter. I would advise you not to go into generic life coaching, I think there's more people who are life coaches that want life coaching. But the more specific you can get, the better. Anymore advice, Christine, just on anything you can think of to somebody about to consider becoming a coach?
Christine Barry:
I think as well, one thing that I see holds some coaches up is thinking that everything has to be perfect, polished and professional from day one. And all of that perfectionism is just going to kill all your dreams. So I think it's way more important to just make steps towards what you actually want to achieve and think about day by day, rather than the 10 years down the track when you're super accomplished. So often I think start somewhere is my most important piece of advice, rather than I have to do everything so perfectly and never make a move.
Sophie Howard:
Brilliant. Well, I see that also, it's so tempting to kind of keep putting things off. But this is one way you really can get started. You only need one client, you only need to run one Facebook ad or ask friends and family if they want to do some coaching for free. And then get a testimonial and develop your material, get some practice. And there are some really good courses out there teaching you how to be a coach. Something like Neurolinguistic Programming Training, you really need to be qualified to coach that sort of thing. And other things are much more personal and up to your own style and life experience.
But I do think it's a neat model. Not for everyone. But as you've heard from Christine, there's some really big pluses to becoming a very accomplished coach. You've very much in demand in the industry. There's always people that need help and support. So real evergreen skill, plus it'll help you in your own life and your own business. Help you with your communication skills. So a lot to love about the coaching model.
So we will wrap up there. In the show notes, you'll be able to see how to get in touch with Christine. And you'll be able to see on the entrepreneurial profiling test what your archetype is, what kind of entrepreneur you are. And that will give you some tips about which of the business models might be a good fit for you. So if you're a connector or a creator, you are very likely to be good at coaching. And you can do that quiz for free and get your individual profile sent to your email. And then you'll have a little bit more awareness about your skills and your strengths and those parts of your personality that match you up to different business models, such as coaching.
So thank you very much, Christine, and I'm sure we'll have you back on the show at some future date. But thank you for all your help and advice there. Thank you.
